Theo Fox: Make Haste Thoughts on the Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane trade rumors to help hasten a Blackhawks rebuild.

Plus, a summary of the IceHogs OT loss to the Wild as well as updates on Wyatt Kalynuk, Isaak Phillips, Tyler Johnson, Brandon Hagel, and Victor Stjernborg.

Toews’ and Kane’s control their own future. In the short term with NMC’s. In the long term they control their future with their expectations for their next contracts considering both dollars and length of contract. Other factors could be how this season plays out. Who the coach will be. What in season moves they make. I doubt they are moved this season. Maybe in the summer. If they both have decent seasons and the team shows signs of life it would not surprise me if they both are extended this summer but the contracts will not be the same and the total cap hit will be well below $21 mil. Kane for more dollars and more term than Toews. And that difference could be a sensitive issue.

On this Veterans Day in the USA and Remembrance Day in Canada, a thank you to the veterans of both countries for their service and sacrifices.

Thanks Theo - Always a great read.


I wonder if Toews decides to hang them up after is contract runs out. How much did his health issues last season change his long term plans? How will the entire Beach scandal judge his thinking on the future?

Toews: the return you mention seems about right, but I think they will have to give it 50 games (until the TDL) to see if (a) he can hold up over the long term, given long lasting health issues, and (b) his lack of scoring is just his typical slow start and he will be his usual 20+40=60, or it’s the “new” Jonny. He’s shown some goos play throughh14 games, but also some JAG play.

Kane: I think your desired return is too much, even for probably the GOAT US born player. There is also his injury issue - he’s a consistent 35-40 goal scorer who has hit the netting in only 3 out of his 10 games this season (not to mention only 4 of his last 38 last season). He’s getting the assists, but something still looks a bit off to me. In any case, 2 firsts and a top prospects seems too be asking for too much.

And - good to see that the Hogs are implementing the parent team’s game plans - get leads, give them up (twice against Iowa).

On this Veterans Day in the USA and Remembrance Day in Canada, a thank you to the veterans of both countries for their service and sacrifices.
- boilermaker100

Volunteers or draftees, career service members or “just” wartime - they have kept (and are keeping) us free and safe. Honors to them every day, not just on “Armistice Day”.

On this Veterans Day in the USA and Remembrance Day in Canada, a thank you to the veterans of both countries for their service and sacrifices.
- boilermaker100

Thanks BM100. And Thank You Vets!

RANGERS:

Kane with 50% salary retention.

Hawks:

Kravtsov, Gauthier, 2022 1st

RANGERS:

Kane with 50% salary retention.

Hawks:

Kravtsov, Gauthier, 2022 1st
- Krakin Ass

No.

If the Hawks trade Kane, it would be just as bad as when they "allowed" Hull to leave for the WHA. It is one thing if Kane ASKED to be traded but it is another thing entirely if he simply AGREED to be traded. Toews is another subject entirely. While he surely has been/still is a face of the Hawks, he simply is not on the same level as Kane. Add in his health issues and you have yet another item to consider. My opinion is simple, if either one of them WANT to go elsewhere seeking another Cup, then grant their wish but only for the right price, if neither of them bring up moving on, then you KEEP your icons at least until their current contracts run out.

Volunteers or draftees, career service members or “just” wartime - they have kept (and are keeping) us free and safe. Honors to them every day, not just on “Armistice Day”.
- StLBravesFan

Regarding conjecture on Toews or Kane trades (which I doubt will happen IMO) there is also the option of a three way trade where 19 or 88 goes to a team with the Hawks retaining 50%, then that team flips them to the final destination retaining another 50% of the remaining 50%. A team can get either one for a reasonable cap hit of about 2.6M.

On this Veterans Day in the USA and Remembrance Day in Canada, a thank you to the veterans of both countries for their service and sacrifices.
- boilermaker100

Those who are willing to enter the line of fire, enter a burning building, or stop a violent act from happening are the real heroes. Thank God for all of them.

Regarding conjecture on Toews or Kane trades (which I doubt will happen IMO) there is also the option of a three way trade where 19 or 88 goes to a team with the Hawks retaining 50%, then that team flips them to the final destination retaining another 50% of the remaining 50%. A team can get either one for a reasonable cap hit of about 2.6M.
- boilermaker100

That is certainly an option, especially if the destination is a Cup contender up against the cap. I think, though, that next year's TDL is more likely for that type of deal because it won't need to be for a second year. Especially with Kane, there should plenty of interest as a rental (if he wants to do so).

Also, as a general comment.....Kyle and the Twins' agent wouldn't be doing their job if they haven't already talked a bit about the future for all of the parties. Working together is something they all deserve; they've all done a lot for each other.

I don't see them trading either, unless extension talks get messy next year. The Hawks are not rebuilding. The rebuild lasted less than one year (last year). You have 3 defenseman in their "prime years" signed long term. The forward group can be replaced via trade or free agency. Dach will be in year 4, although 21, it should be his breakout year. If not, he could go the way of the other overall 3rd round pick the Hawks have Dylan Strome. ADB the year after next (when Kane or Toews are either off the books or signed for less dollars) is the only players due for a significant raise.

Although different circumstances than Marlow and Thornton (trying to chase their first cup), I do not see Toews signing for minimum salary and going from team to team to chase his fourth.

EDIT, And if they were rebuilding, IMO they would have done what they did with JC, given King an extension, not looking for a bigger name coach after the season.

I don't see them trading either, unless extension talks get messy next year. The Hawks are not rebuilding. The rebuild lasted less than one year (last year). You have 3 defenseman in their "prime years" signed long term. The forward group can be replaced via trade or free agency. Dach will be in year 4, although 21, it should be his breakout year. If not, he could go the way of the other overall 3rd round pick the Hawks have Dylan Strome. ADB the year after next (when Kane or Toews are either off the books or signed for less dollars) is the only players due for a significant raise.

Although different circumstances than Marlow and Thornton (trying to chase their first cup), I do not see Toews signing for minimum salary and going from team to team to chase his fourth.

EDIT, And if they were rebuilding, IMO they would have done what they did with JC, given King an extension, not looking for a bigger name coach after the season.
- LAHawk

We don't know if the Hawks are rebuilding and a good bet Hawk management doesn't know if they are or not either and therein lies the rub. The Hawks, as far as we know, are the same rudderless ship they've been the last 5 yrs without a hockey mind charged with carrying out a "plan" at the top of the organIzational pyramid.

And IMO until they know that moving a Kane or Toews is not wise. ...... I'm afraid a fan is going to be left to watch their moves to see what the plan is, again if there is one, cuz the chances of them telling us is slim.

I don't see them trading either, unless extension talks get messy next year. The Hawks are not rebuilding. The rebuild lasted less than one year (last year). You have 3 defenseman in their "prime years" signed long term. The forward group can be replaced via trade or free agency. Dach will be in year 4, although 21, it should be his breakout year. If not, he could go the way of the other overall 3rd round pick the Hawks have Dylan Strome. ADB the year after next (when Kane or Toews are either off the books or signed for less dollars) is the only players due for a significant raise.

Although different circumstances than Marlow and Thornton (trying to chase their first cup), I do not see Toews signing for minimum salary and going from team to team to chase his fourth.

EDIT, And if they were rebuilding, IMO they would have done what they did with JC, given King an extension, not looking for a bigger name coach after the season.
- LAHawk

Trading Kane and/or Toews just to get “something” would be a mistake. Kane is still elite and one of the best in the game. Toews may not be the Toews of 2010 but he’s still playing very well. Toews isn’t worth $10.5 million, but his cap hit isn’t deterring the team from any other moves.

Now, if the return for 88 or 19 was a king’s ransom then it’s worth exploring. But which teams can afford that and are in a position to make a trade like that beneficial? I may be in the minority, but I’d keep Toews and Kane plus look to extend them (3 year deal).

RANGERS:

Kane with 50% salary retention.

Hawks:

Kravtsov, Gauthier, 2022 1st
- Krakin Ass

I'm afraid a Ranger fan can expect young Dman Lundkvist to be part of the ask for any front line player.

You are right...if this is a rebuild, then they have been doing it all wrong...you don't trade away 1st round picks during a rebuild and you don't trade for a goalie who undoubtedly will stay for 1 year only. You go with the youngsters, lose as much as you can and get high valuable 1st rounders.

Trading Kane and/or Toews just to get “something” would be a mistake. Kane is still elite and one of the best in the game. Toews may not be the Toews of 2010 but he’s still playing very well. Toews isn’t worth $10.5 million, but his cap hit isn’t deterring the team from any other moves.

Now, if the return for 88 or 19 was a king’s ransom then it’s worth exploring. But which teams can afford that and are in a position to make a trade like that beneficial? I may be in the minority, but I’d keep Toews and Kane plus look to extend them (3 year deal).
- DarthKane

Agreed. Unless of course either/both have already indicated to management that they are ready to move on. In which case you make your best deal before it becomes widely known that they want out.

RANGERS:

Kane with 50% salary retention.

Hawks:

Kravtsov, Gauthier, 2022 1st
- Krakin Ass

Like anyone else I really liked the NYR roster coming in and the add of Gallant too but it ain't really working right now. That is to say the way they've earned their fine record is not sustainable. ........ Decent read on the Rangers.

https://dobberhockey.com/...ds-struggles-november-11/

Agreed. Unless of course either/both have already indicated to management that they are ready to move on. In which case you make your best deal before it becomes widely known that they want out.
- Ogilthorpe2

Since both have Pat Brisson as their agent, fi they want to leave, it will be known.

Theo Fox: Make Haste
Thoughts on the Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane trade rumors to help hasten a Blackhawks rebuild.

Plus, a summary of the IceHogs OT loss to the Wild as well as updates on Wyatt Kalynuk, Isaak Phillips, Tyler Johnson, Brandon Hagel, and Victor Stjernborg.
- Theo Fox

Theo, will start by saying the content and frequency of your blogs are most appreciated and the content is usually excellent. But there are occasions where you leave yourself very vulnerable to criticism. This is one of them.

First, who is the source(s) of these "hot takes on proposed trades"? If they come from anybody other than your boss Eklund, suggest you reveal them.

And as it relates to Toews, tell me how that trade idea with Calgary makes any sense at all. Do you think Rocky is going to call Danny and say 'I heard this rumour about doing a deal with Calgary for Johnny. Seems like a good idea to me that we retain 50% of his salary for about a year and a half. And even though Monahan is coming off hip surgery and Sutter has him on their 4th line, that $6.4M deal is OK if we get a 2nd and some kid with a bit of potential too. Even though Johnny was captain of the team that won our 1st Cup in nearly 50 years and 2 more after, there probably won't be any blowback in the press. And probably won't hurt ticket sales either, right Danny?"

The trade idea is ridiculous. And one last thing to remember - Johnny doesn't have to go anywhere he doesn't want to go.

Agreed. Unless of course either/both have already indicated to management that they are ready to move on. In which case you make your best deal before it becomes widely known that they want out.
- Ogilthorpe2

Fair point. If either of them wants out they’ve earned that right and the club should accommodate their request. If that’s the case I wouldn’t worry too much about the return, the Hawks should do their best (without hurting the club) to place 88 and 19 to their destination of choice. The Hawks did this with Bolland when the traded him to Toronto. I recall Stan saying he had better offers (albeit not much better) but wanted to send 36 to his first choice.

Since both have Pat Brisson as their agent, fi they want to leave, it will be known.
- LAHawk

There are differences though between wanting out now, being open to waiving the NTC, and being ready to move on after next season. In the case of Toews especially, I could potentially see him retiring after next season. If they know this is his plan, then that changes things.

Unless they want out ASAP, I doubt their agent would start a poop storm now.